Wind speed relays

Discussion in 'Start here' started by leamywind1, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Wind speed relays

    I have found a few relays that can be controlled by the wind which may be a good answer to a dump load control or using them to switch to different GTI"s of the China type wind rated only (Sun G type with dump load control)). For GTI's my thoughts are to have the wind speed controller turn on/off low and high volt inverters according to the wind speeds. Let's say a 10-30v 500w or 250w GTI can be tuned off at 12MPH and a higher volatge inverter (1kw 22-60v) take over from there. When the wind speed drops below 12MPH the 10-30v inverter is tuned on again to collect lower wind power. Since we know that our turbines like to run at higher voltages for better efficiancy's this may be a good way to get good low wind watts but still get the rated power out of our turbines in the higher volt range as most of our turbines can hit 22v in 12-14 MPH winds regarding most 1kw tubines and under like a Windy Nation, Wind Max, or SWEA. Please note these are 24v rated turbines i am speaking of not 12v or 48v (No car pma's, tread mill motor"s or ceiling fans are included )​

    If you are familuar with your site and workings of your turbine system i also thought this wind switch would work for a dump load control as well. Weather it be for a battery system or an exteranl dump control for a GTI system. Mostly all wind systems are based on volatge control so why not let the wind control the system instead of the volatge?
    Links for a wind speed switch

    About $100.00 shipping cost vary
    http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Hunter-Irrigation-Wind-Sensors-p/wind-clik.htm

    About $225.00 shipping cost vary
    http://www.inspeed.com/anemometers/WindSwitch.asp

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    GTI safety relay or can be used as a ATS switch.

    ast Vincent-20110511-00220.jpg As i posted previously this is used for my ATS switch. Switching from grid power to battery back up. the small gti is hooked to a Morningstar PWM CC. it dumps into the GTI. This is explaned in one of my other post's

    Here larger picture of it and can be used for a China GTI saftey relay as explained below.
    Made by Cutler Hammer. The cost willl depend on how many amps of D/C you want to pull through it. Normally a 2 pole is all you really need but some systems may require more. This system is for the more savoy person.
    gti contactor.jpg
    The 2 pole main contactor will be used N/O for A/C power to the GTI's
    Feed the top of the main contactor with black and white so you can break the netrual as well if you want. (120vac) Bottom part goes to the feed for your GTI's. I have my GTI's all hard wired in. No outlets/plugs. Saves room. (I use a 240v system wirning 3 inverters per hot leg and using the neutral for a common). this will keep the system more balanced rather then sending all the power to just one leg of the main electrical panel. Anyway, Grid power will keep the main contactor closed as the 120 vac coil is energized by the grid. When the grid goes down it opens the main contactor killing power to the GTI's. You can simulate this by shutting off the breaker to the main system provided you jump off the main feed (hot side) of the contactor to the coil. Rememeber netural is common for the relay too. Also this is an AC contactor. DC has a higher Arc ratio so if this contactor will be used extermely alot this may not be the right one to use, a D/C one may be the choice. Since i do not have a lot grid failures this AC one works. A/C contactors are alot cheaper to buy new. So again knowing your site like the back of your hand does reflect on all the parts and pieces you select. Build your system to your site, do not just build for the sake of building it.

    On both sides in white of the main contactor you will see two white aux relays N/C. They snap into the main contactor on the sides and the grid holds them open as it holds the A/C main contactor shut. A/C conneted- D/C disconnected. The aux ones are where you put your D/C in and out to your battery or dump coils. I also have a diode in place if going to the bat bank. Use ea. aux relay at 20 amps to make 40 combined. Paralle your wiring off the GTI's (1) #12 awg wire or bigger per run. Again you can use the main contactor for the D/C if you so choose instead of the aux relays. this whole conatactor-relay system can be set N/O or NC both the main contactor and relays have either options.

    This is a mechanical contactor, not a solid state relay or contactor (SSR or SSC)) so it will buzz. You must exercise it to keep it from buzzing. (turn it off/on a few times a month). If the system does it on it's own then you are fine. if that is happeneing then that means you are having lots of power outages.

    I woud also suggest a surge protector on your main electrcial panel. Called a "whole house surge protector" 240vac. I have that, and a D/C lighting arrestor on each of my turbines to combat the issue of frying my inverters or anything else in the house due to surges.

    Oh, by the way i am back to a seperate system for each turbine. 2 inverters per turbine. 250 10-30v and a 1000w 22-60v all with dump coils hooked to them now. Works out better for me/my location to get through the 250 inverter faster to get to the 22-60. Wind speed control relays may be my next move to persue this.

    Hope this helps
     
  3. bluejay

    bluejay WindyNation Engineer

    So are you saying that with the relay no power would go to the 10-30v gt once the switch changed over to the 22v?? That is genius because what most will learn the hard way is the 10-30 WILL blow the capacitor if 35v is exceeded even if it isnt feeding and is only still connected to that dc supply...
     
  4. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Relay switching system China GTI's
    Well, so far,I got it working like a champ. I tested it in about 25MPH winds gust's with now flaws all day yasturday. It disconnects the 10-30 v GTI from the pos side completly then reconnects at 18v. This set up can be used for a dumpload controller also and cost me about 16 bucks to build. I used a zenor diode 12v to control the coil voltage which is 10-30vdc on the relay rated at 10 amps at 28vdc. I then tied one side of the relay to the positve busbar of the turbine, the other lead from the relay went to the pos of the inverter. Neg are all going to one buss bar. Using the relay in a NC position it opens at 18V seems the relay since it is not a solid state one reacts at 6 v. So a 12v zenor diode plus 6v to activate the coil is 18v you can buy differnet zenor diodes to change the activation on the coil. If i could put a voltage pot inline i could really zero in on what specific volatge i wanted to work. Not sure on that part. The zenor diade has to be rated bigger in watts or milli amps then the coil or you will burn it up. This doiade is .5w and the relay is 20 milli amps.​
    Here it is in the raw, i now have it wired in for good now. You can see it is rated for NO or NC also good for A/C and D/C voltages. If you took a 54v zenor diode that would give you sixty volts activation using this particular relay. (54v + 6v to activate) Depending on your amps an external relay may need to be used as this one is rated for only 10 amps. This company also makes a 20 amp modual too. I bought this at my elecrical supply house. The zenor diode i bought at Radio shack.
    st Coventry-20111123-00172.jpg
    The relay is on the left side and has an activation led, the zenor diode is on the right side going to the positive of the turbine and the positive of the relay. The 22-60v inverter is also wired in parralle off the same pos bss bar as the relay and the turbine. Everything is in paralle using 1 buss bar. The zenor diode is a gate that only lets voltage through at the diodes rated voltage, so it keep a steady 12v flowing even though the voltage of the turbine is higher coming in.

    So again using a 10-30v inverter 250 and a 1000w 22-60v inverter
    This relay disconnects the 10-30v inverter at 18v, lets the turbine rev up to 22 or so and the 1kw takes over if the wind speed drops the volatge gets under 18v the relay will connect 10-30v GTI and if a sudden burst of wind comes along the turbine then revs back up to the 22-60v inverter. I have found this is the best way to tweek my sytem allowing me to get low wind watts but also allowing me to get better and quicker production at a higher volatge at the right time regading the wind speeds. My system ran alot cooler too due to i was not locked into the 10-30v for to long all day long.
    This system may need to be adjusted for your particular site/turbine. You may want to double up the zenor diodes for extra protection running them in paralle. It is as usual another experiment but a cheap one with great results if it works for your sytem. Good luck
     
  5. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    That is the same thing I did with mine at one time. Watch that relay does not fry. Mine was rated at 16 amps and it fried mine. It melted in the closed position.That is why I said to hook it to a heavy duty relay . My biggest concern was that doing a quick connect back to the grid tie would be bad for it. Instead of the voltage ramping up from 0 volts.
     
  6. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Thanks Tom,
    GREAT POINT. The first thing i know is that my turbine (600w WM) can get through the 250 10-30v GTI upto about 80 watts at 18v so i did the math that's 4.4 amps so no worries on the relay amps rating and plenty of room to spare for amps. That is the first thing i wanted to reconize so i knew what amps were gonna go through the relay.When the GTI 250 10-30v re connects it should be around the same amps going to the inverter depending on when the MPPT grabs on or the turbine will rev back up to the 22-60v 1kw inverter. What i have seen is when the 250 10-30v is re connected it takes it's time so to reconnect. i guesss the caps are filling up. I like this because the inverter seems not to be slamed in anyway with a surge of volts and amps. If the wind suddenly picks up again during this process the relay see's the 18v and it it is simply disconnects the 10-30v inverter from it's positive side and the turbine's power goes to the 22-60v GTI. The 22-60v GTIv inverter is always seeing power from the turbine as it is in paralle with everything else so it is already seeing the voltage at all times.

    I think you have made valid point that an exteral relay may need to be used as well but that again depends on the site regarding the winds and if you have tweaked your system good enough. iIam in the proces of tweaking to find the perfect sweet spot. For my one tuburbine so far the 600w wind max sems to work with the 18v relay swithcing.

    I have a windspeed switch coming next week made by Inspeed. It will control relays to turn on and off depending on the set points of the wind speeds i choose on the unit. I will be using external relays to do this, one main relay will control 3 at the rated amps needed. So if one wanted to use an external relay rated for higher amprage i would say do so to make things even safer. I can tell you i am gaining much more power from doing it this way. Once i have all the relays tweaked and working according to each turbines charecteristics i will do a vid. You may alo want to use two zener diodes to double the rate wattage of them. two would be a redundant idea as well. I am not an electronics expert so if any adjustments need to be added please let me know.

    Turbine being used is Wind Max 24 volt 1000w rated

    zener relay.jpg

    Tom, was your system hooked up like i explained? Is their something different i can do to make this work better?

    Please let me know:)
     
  7. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Yes the setup was the same. But mine used that switch that I bought and it has a delay before it kicks in. The way you set yours up with the Zener it will trigger alot faster.
    I would run it like you have it but I have seen 750 watts out of the two turbines in heavy gusts. That is why now I went with a 24 volt battery bank and the switch dumps right off the main positive on the inverter to the dump load using the heavy duty relay at 28 volts. That way both inverters are taking the load as well as the dump load at the same during those huge gusts I get from time to time. I do not want the turbine to come disconnected from any load or it will over volt the grid ties. When the batteries go to dump.
    NOTE : Both GTIs are running and putting power to the grid as well as some going to the dump. As soon as the gust starts to slow down the dump kicks out and the two GTIs take the remaining power.
     
  8. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Thanks Tom, well i will ride this out and see how it goes. So far so good.
    i assume you are using WN dump coils? If so what volatge? 24v?
     
  9. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    As of 12/07/2011 I have (2) 24v 300 w resistors in parallel and (20 12v 300w resistors in series then tied in parallel to the others for 900w total at 24v for dump load now. To handle the 600 watt turbine I am adding after I take down the Windy Nation turbine.
     
  10. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Ok thanks.
     
  11. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Well i received the Inspeed wind switch. It has many different wind speed settings. It will take about a week to see some results so i will let you know how it is works. The plan is to use this wind speed switch to controll (3) other 20 milliamp coil, 10 amp vdc rated relay's to operate (3) 250w gti 10-30 v), disonnecting them at 15 mph wind pseeds and letting th 22-60v inverters take over. 1 realy per turbine, 3 turbines. windswitch 2.jpg I beleive this also coulsd be usd as a dump load controller as well. It is a little pricy to buy barnd new. I purchased mine off ebay for a hell of a deal.

    wind switch.jpg
     
  12. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Relay system Update

    I have not hooked up the windswitch i bought form inspeed yet but so far my own switching system is working like a champ. Next step is to build the rest of the control circuit to protect the relay from seeing 60 volts plus. This will open up doors for anyone who wants to build a dump load controller as well.​
    st Coventry-20111207-00218.jpg IMG-20111207-00213.jpg
    Red light means the 10-30v GTI's are disconnected and the 22-60v GTI's are taking the loads
    I use to switch it manually, but now it is all automatic. Now i just need a new cover plate. Lol

    IMG-20111207-00212.jpg st Coventry-20111207-00220.jpg wind tubine power 12-8-11.jpg
    Here you can see how each turbine reacts to the lower volt inverters regarding wind and voltage.
    So it is very benificial for me to switch them since they all do not get the same winds at the same times. The system is custumized to each turbine and it's location on my site.Each turbine switches on it's own depending on the wind. If the 10-30v GTI is caught sleeping the 22-60v GTI takes the load.Both inverters are always always seeing voltage it is only the 10-30v GTI's that get disconnected at 18v. There is a power gap of zero watts between 19-21v but it is only for a few seconds. Anything above 13-15 MPH winds all the turbines are running in the 22-60v range.

    IMG-20111207-00221.jpg st Coventry-20111207-00206.jpg st Coventry-20111207-00222.jpg
    596watts 206 watts 633 watts

    Once i complete the rest of the switchnng circuit i wil post.
    :)
     
  13. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Well here's the post
    With the help of Minnesota i got my switching circuit done. I have made several for different turbines to be switched according to their chracteristics of the wind and the GTI's at my site. One switches at 14v and the other at 18v.
    So here is the little controller. Good from 0- 60VDC to protect the relay coil i am using. Using different relays and circuit calculations, this can be used for many different voltage applications for switching. I got sick of looking/buying for just the right thing i needed for my idea so i decided to make one. This particular one is set up for for a 10-30v realy using 12v zener diodes. The relay switches at 18vand uses .20mA to switch. Actual activation point of the relay is 6v so 12v zener diode +6v going through it is a 18v activation point. Perfetct for my HY 600w. I did a 14v activation system for my HY 1kw. Again this can be used for many different applications. Under testing i have see 55v from the trubines and the relay system has no failure.

    relay controller.jpg
     
    TomT likes this.
  14. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Just another update to look at a custom switcing relay i use for my site. Keeps my turbines running/switiching (10-30V or 22-60V) at a higher voltage (22-60V) from 12 to 35MPH winds. Allowing bigger watts. Also gives me a low wind produtcion all while protecting the relay circuit from frying. This is specficly design for my HY 400, 600, 1000w tubines at my site.

    wind speed relay 12.jpg

    wind turbine watts 12-28-11.jpg

    This is why i am doing this. Please look below at my volts and then my A/C watts, there is pleanty of room to go before any overvolt occurs from any of the turbines regarding the 22-60v range. I use CT clamps to measure power with a TED 1001 energy monitor. It works way better then a plug in Kw meter for me, as it does not blink off/on or mis calculate watts. So far this system has been doing better then i have ever seen or thought. I would have not got this close to these watts if i was using only 10-30V GTI's. Allowing the turbines to run in higher volatges at the right time allows for a way more energy production/Kw hrs produced. (Remeber this is all speaking of using the Sun G wind rated GTI's, 24v Wind max's, and my site only.) The watt spikes are higher but so is the lowwind watts down in the 12-14 MPH range.

    990 watts A/C (3 turbines) (Seen a peek recording of 1,620 today on the AC watts side)
    So that's about 1,140 watts DC if you calculate a 15% derating in efficiancy from the inverters.
    So progress is being made for this idea.
    Soon i will have a wind meter right next to the rest of the meters to give you the answer as well as myself on the wind speeds. It's on order.
    wind speed relay 11.jpg
     
  15. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Now that i have made a raw relay system to work the idea i have now hooked up the wind switch i purchased. It has solved all of my problems regarding switching inverters. It is an upscale to my idea of the homade relays i currently was using until now. I now have the wind switch in place. I have tied two external 12v car relays to the main relay in the wind switch itself. That relay is rated for 10amps. so it acan controll many relays esspicially if they are SSR's ( solid state relays) The other relays that actually switch the inverters are rated at 40a. The wind switch needs a 12v source which comes from my emergency battery system. Now I'm able to switch the inverters from the wind speeds and not worry about any high volatges controlling the system.
    I am swtiching two out of 3 of my turbines from the 1030 to the 2260 Sun G GTI's at 10mph. I am still testing at what wind speed is the best to switch. The wind switch i have can be switched from 5-40MPH winds at increments of 5MPH so i need to pick either 10 or 15 MPH. A fast gust will change it at about 12-13MPH as it takes time for the wind cups to register that gust. So again 10MPH will be my switching for now. This system could also be used for an external dump control as well.

    DSC00349.JPG
     

Share This Page