Turbine to hot water heating element

Discussion in 'Start here' started by logic+wisdom+nature, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. logic+wisdom+nature

    logic+wisdom+nature WindyNation Engineer

    Hello I am a new member.

    I am also relatively new to the Wind and solar community . So be easy on me if you will.

    My question for all of you experts. Can I connect my 500 watt wind turbine directly to my 24 volt heating element in my pre- heated hot water tank ? or do I have to have a controller, battery , or grid tie inverter ?
    I want to be as direct as possible for obvious reasons.

    please give me your formulas and or ideas.
    Thanks a bunch , James :D
     
  2. Minnesota

    Minnesota WindyNation Engineer

    It is not usually possible to connect a 12 or 24 Volt water heating element directly to the output from a wind turbine. The voltages generated by a 12/24 Volt wind turbine are typically far in excess of the nominal Voltage rating - with values of over 50 Volts often recorded in heavy winds. These high voltages would rapidly burn out the heating element when you need it most. A 12 Volt heating element should be used with just 12-15 Volts, a 24V heating element with just 24-30 Volts.

    In order to prevent the heating element from receiving fluctuating over-voltages a small battery bank can be used as a buffer between the wind turbine output and the heating element. A pair of 12V motorcycle battery is perfect for this task (for 24V immersion elements) - no more powerful than 4 amp hours / 50 cold cranking amps per battery, and they should be lead-acid batteries which can be refilled with water. A sealed gel types or dry cells should not be used.

    The heating element chosen must be closely matched to the typical power output of the wind turbine. If the element is too large (high wattage), the wind turbine will not be able to start up spinning unless the wind is very strong. If the element has a low wattage, nothing will be damaged since the small battery will limit the voltage to around 24v in this case, but heat will be dissipated in the wind turbine generator and cables rather than used to heat water.

    If the heating element is poorly matched then there is the risk of a large voltage drop between the wind turbine and the immersion heating element causing the cable between them to potentially melt or fuses to blow. In this eventuality the wind turbine would then freewheel at very high RPM and could easily be damaged or destroyed.

    For Windy Nation PMAs you still need a bridge to get to DC from the 3-phase AC that the turbine provides.
     
  3. logic+wisdom+nature

    logic+wisdom+nature WindyNation Engineer

    :D
    Great answers and assistance thanks much !

    And if I used a heater or grid tie inverter as a dump load it may protect the batteries in case the submersible element burns out right ?

    so how do I keep the batteries from discharging when the wind stops ? I feel like I am opening a barrel of monkeys . ha

    Here is my exact objective. Wind Turbine to heat the top element in my water tank when the wind blows. A diversion load in case the submersible fails and for the batteries to live as long as possible.Can I do all of this with a rectifier , dump load and batteries ?
    I just want it to be as simple as possible yet most cost effective of course. please name all components and equipment to achieve my goal please. And the best assembly order in your opinion .

    What is your formula for this my friend ?
    Anyone ?

    Thank you very much for your time and input :ugeek:

    , James
     
  4. Minnesota

    Minnesota WindyNation Engineer

    If it were simple more people would be doing this.

    1. If I used a heater or grid tie inverter as a dump load it may protect the batteries in case the submersible element burns out right ?
    A: But you need something to "switch" to the new load automatically or else the normal load would be too high not allowing the turbine to start.

    2. So how do I keep the batteries from discharging when the wind stops ?
    A: It will discharge but you'll get a lot of cycles before this 4AH bank would need to be replaced. Install a voltmeter and keep tabs on it's health.

    3. Here is my exact objective. Wind Turbine to heat the top element in my water tank when the wind blows. A diversion load in case the submersible fails and for the batteries to live as long as possible. Can I do all of this with a rectifier , dump load and batteries ?
    A: No.

    4. I just want it to be as simple as possible yet most cost effective of course. please name all components and equipment to achieve my goal please. And the best assembly order in your opinion .
    A. You need to learn how to do this otherwise you won't know if it is working, working properly, or has broken. Go to the library and get a basic book on wind power. They cover all the component types and the connections, and then when you come back you will find stuff that WN sells that you'll need and some that you will have to get elsewhere. It's not very complicated and it doesn't need to be expensive.

    5. What is your formula for this my friend?
    A. Read, learn, do, repeat. Your turn.
     
  5. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    [attachment=0:ity4gjdh]wind-turbine-water-heating-dump-load.gif[/attachment:ity4gjdh]

    Hope this helps
    Larry
     

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  6. logic+wisdom+nature

    logic+wisdom+nature WindyNation Engineer

    Thanks Minnesota and Larry :)

    I have been to the library and I will be back very soon. I want all of my installs , Safety , and cost to be as close to perfect as a man could ask for.

    until I can make it to the library can anyone tell me if using a grid tie inverter first then simply using an AC timer and DC power supply to power the element would work ?

    I am trying to avoid a two year install and repeat cost on batteries. if this would work can I expect the grid tie inverter to out last the batteries and or be more cost effective assuming it last 5 years ?

    Thank you for all of your input and concern , James :D
     
  7. logic+wisdom+nature

    logic+wisdom+nature WindyNation Engineer

    off of the subject but interesting !

    I added an extra battery to my home alarm system and ran 2 - 48 led lights with a fuse and RV light switch and presto ! free back up lights that work any time :shock:

    I pay for the Alarm and phone service why not get some lighting out of it.

    I tested an old alarm box that I have as well and it does all of the work . Turns 20-60 volts into 12 volt trickle charging. I ran my bateries in paralel so that they are still 12 volts yet have more amp hours for the 2nd light.
    Dont worry I tested the Alarm with the lights on and it lasted longer than usual .

    So I get not only alarm service but 12 volt lighing thanks to me being home from work too long.

    ps
    if you use them for back up only you are not getting free electricity from the phone company. I have heard that they will run all night with no problems but I have not done that because it seems to good to be true. :roll:
     

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