Series Capacitors and the Wintura 500

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by TomT, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    I spent last night thinking about this circuit again. :idea:
    I think I found a much better and simpler way to make this work as a Series Capacitor circuit using the Resistor Series circuit in parallel to regulate the max voltage on the turbine side. So the turbine does not spin up without having a load on it.

    [attachment=0:l920suya]SeriesCapandResistor.jpg[/attachment:l920suya]

    Adjust the resistor size to change voltage at turbine. Try and shoot for 24 - 35v MAX.

    Trying it out this weekend. Will see how wild it is and let everyone know. :ugeek:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Have it all hooked up.
    So far starts around 5 mph. Current goes up smooth but not going to have better winds till Sunday. Also with 3 resistors the turbine side voltage has been up to a high of 20 volts so far. Seems to be working. :)
    If it continues I will get a variable resistor and dial in highest current around 20 mph.
     
  3. windyguru

    windyguru WindyNation Expert

    Hi Tom,

    I got some more caps on the way. The first set (330 uf, 250 VDC) did not do anything. I mean nothing! No current to the battery at all.

    If I disconnected the + and - turbine leads from the battery, I could read open circuit voltage from the turbine. But I could not get any current to the battery? My guess is the caps are bad but I measured them on the meter and they were within +/-1% of 330 uf.

    Anyways, I am getting some 2500 uf, 200 VDC caps. Hopefully that will do something. John has some ideas for using a few different circuits to PWM the current to the battery to increase current even more. We could use it to control the loading on the generator. But first we got to get some caps that at least work.

    I will be traveling a lot the next 10 days so I will probably not have much time for testing :evil:
     
  4. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    That is what I had too.
    The 330mF did not do anything with mine either.
     
  5. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Got the testing done. :) The best resistance is 1.2 ohms. I tried 2 12v 300w resistors in series and it cut the amps down. I tried 1 300w 12v resistor and it was running wild again and making a lot of noise.
    At 1.2 ohms it runs up fast and smooth and does not make noise. The volts on the turbine side with the battery at 12 volts starts at 15 volts and climbs to 22 volts max. The resistor which is the spring setup barely gets warm at 25 -30 mph but I am sure as it warms up and increases in resistance the volts will climb just a little bit.This will put more current down the capacitor side.
     
  6. fabieville

    fabieville WindyNation Engineer

    In relation to what TomT said about The series caps ran too fast and noisy and he was planning to limit the turbine's voltage by using resistors,
    If I dont want to limit the voltage could you please state the disadvantages/advantages of not limiting it. And could you please draw a circuit or tell me how to connect just the series caps to my turbine. I am using a delco 540 pma with 2 rectifier blocks. Also could i use just 3 caps instead of using 6?
     
  7. windyguru

    windyguru WindyNation Expert

    What Tom has done is for a WindyNation PMA. That is, he has optimized his application for a WN PMA and applying it to a Delco would not be a direct transfer. You would have to do some experimenting to figure out what works best for your PMA or if this would work at all on a Delco. There is some evidence that this type of set-up works much better on iron core generators.

    I think you could use three AC caps instead of six DC.
     
  8. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    You can use 3 AC capacitors.
    But I have not found any that size online That would be the same.
     
  9. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Josh

    Have you had the time to try the capacitors yet. I know you have been away and busy. Also with the holidays you might not have much time. Let us know when you have tested them.
     
  10. fabieville

    fabieville WindyNation Engineer

    I am kinda confused as i ask if this setup could work on a delco 540 pma and windyguru said he didn't think that it would work but when i am looking at the design of the Windy nation motor vs the delco one is just the power output is different, the windynation has more magnets and coil wires hence more power. I am just wondering if this setup would work on my delco 540 cause i really would glad if it would work because I have my delco 540 along with 5 hyperspin windynation blades and i am trying to squeeze as much energy I can from it because i live in a very low wind area.
    Also if i used 3000uf 200v caps would that work?
     
  11. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    I really could not tell you. I bought these capacitors cause I had 4 in my junk box from a ham fest years ago. And they work fine.
    It all has to do with frequency of the turbine. The lower the coil count the lower the frequency and the bigger mF capacitors you need. My 2500mF caps maybe just right or too big for the Windy Nation 500w turbine. There is a formula over at Fieldlines forum or OtherPower forum. Needs figures I could not supply to finish the problem. So took a chance. Only spent $30 for 2 more capacitors. If they didn work was going to try for 5000mF 250v Capacitors.
     
  12. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    fabieville,

    I did sleep on it and I must have miss understood your email about more magnets and more copper. I just looked at both units and came up with this.

    WindBlue 540 12 magnets X 42 coils equals 504 Pules every revolution

    Windtura 500 8 magnets X 36 coils equals 288 Pulses per revolution

    WindBlue will run at a higher frequency. I do not see any reason why 2500 microfarad caps will not work.

    I will try to explain it. Small caps charge faster than big caps. If the caps are too small they will charge too fast and not absorb and pass on the rest of the AC pulse.
     
  13. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    I have been reading a few posts on other boards and they are asking how do 2 electrolytic capacitors work as an AC capacitor.
    First off when 1 is wired in correctly it charges on the positive pulse. Anything negative is shorted to ground.As long as it stays positive it buffers or smooths out the pulses by charging and discharging. So one capacitor with AC will charge on positive and short on negative. If the capacitor can not take the heat it burns out.
    Put 2 back to back connecting the same polarity together in the middle and you get this. The positive charge charges the first and the second is shorted. Works as normal no excessive current flow. Negative pulse first one shorts second one charges. No excess current flow. AC will pass thru.
    Hope this helps only way to explain it that I can think of.
     
  14. windyguru

    windyguru WindyNation Expert

    Tom,

    I am going to try 3300 mf this Friday if the rain lets up. Been raining for 4 days straight.
     
  15. fabieville

    fabieville WindyNation Engineer

    Can i add capacitors in series that have same voltage but different uf rating to use with the wind turbine?
     
  16. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Waiting for Josh to do some testing.
    Right now the output dropped to same as direct connect. By using the whole circuit I am still getting a little more at startup but it does not help anymore beyond that. The other forum where they tried this said that performance will drop off. But they had no idea how long it would take. At this point for me running just caps only gets me easier start up.
     
  17. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Was removing the capacitors last night. I went to discharge them before I removed them and my 2 oldest capacitors. 30+ years old. Did not give any sparks when I shorted the terminals out.
    So I removed them and tried a charge discharge cycle. no sparks.The using a OHM meter checking both ways and got the same reading. One way should be a low reading and the other it should charge up and give a high reading. But they are a partial short both ways. :cry:
    So they were a partial short allowing the turbine to be dropped down near battery voltage. That is why my output dropped. Guess those 2 could not keep up with the youngsters. :lol:
     
  18. dank

    dank WindyNation Engineer

    I think your trying to reinvent the wheel. RUN Caps. have been used in AC motors for some years, 1940 give or take. They are never electrolytic caps. but foil or paper. Electrolytic caps. will short out in a short time. The MFD is much lower. I have two ac motors, 60 cycle, they are both 23.5 mfd. The run cap is in parallel with the coil. Meaning the Wintura has three wires. They would be wired from the two outside wires to the ground. A ohm meter will easily tell you which is which. The cap. tunes the capacitor-inductor to the frequency you are using. AC motors are at 60 cycs. A wind generator varies according to wind speed so I don't know what capacitance would be best maybe experiment around. Usually when you hook to Elec. caps. back to back you cancel each one out. You can get these at any electrical supply house. $10. to $15 dollars. Dank
     
  19. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    I gave up on the caps as my turbine would run way to wild all the time.The back to back configuration is to pass AC through them. A straight cap in series would pop because they are DC caps. Fact is it ran so fast and furious that you could hear it a couple blocks away when the wind was blowing 20 - 30 mph.
     
  20. dank

    dank WindyNation Engineer

    Would like to correct my last reply. The windure 500 does not have a ground or common wire coming out of it. It has three separate coils. So it would need three caps in series to the bridge. Motor run capators are sold at Jameco Electronics. The value is 10 MFD. at 370 volts. Cost $1.95 each. I ordered three and will test them out when they come and let you know how they work. I live in a low wind area so don't know how soon that will be. They have spade connectors on them so will be easy to bring them in and out of circuit. Jameco Electronics has a $15. min. Hope this clears things up. Dank
     

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