HY-1000 blade failure....cause & solutions?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Prairiewind, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Collin from all your detailed information that we all aprreiaite it seems unfortunatley the new HY 1kw 24v is to much for the 1kw Sun G and its dump controller or two GTI's together for that matter. You are the only one I know who has tested the new HY 1kw 24v with this GTI set up. I am sorry to see it has failed so other measures must be taken since HY has no testing data on your/our set ups. As we have discussed in our emails I think to stop the bleeding you may need a furling system or a battery clamping system or both considering your winds.
    Further more if those two solutions are not the answer to trying to stay with the Sun G GTI then another consideration maybe a 24v Outback grid tie battery back up system. I know very costly.
    Maybe finding out what HY uses as far as a dump coil but I think they control the braking on the AC side through their CC.

    My suggestion would be to battery clamp at 48v and use Tom's board as a controller with an external SSR to dump from the batteries to a dump load or tie the turbine to a 24v battery bank, have tom's board dump to the GTI at 25v and use a CC or another of Tom's boards to dump the batteries when they get to high. I keep saying batteries because using the turbine voltages with electronics is a very hard thing to make work from your own design. Using the 24v bat system will surly keep the blade rpms down. It would be nice to know what rpm those blades are doing at 60v but I think even with a 48v bat bank to clamp it down along with a dump coil would make a huge difference in the control.

    Good luck and keep us posted.:)
  2. Yeah Larry you may be right about needing to use batteries. I just can't believe we can't come up with an ordinary dump load coil configuration that does the trick. So let's review. When my first set of these new HY 1kw blew, I was running a single 22-60v 1kw SunG GTI with 4 x 24v x300w Windy Nation green dump coils (2 pairs in parallel and then in series).

    With this system under likely 65-70 mph winds, both the GTI burned up and the blades blew off. HY Energy worked with me and explained the situation as they saw it:

    The SunG inverter don't have the braking system, we can do nothing about it, but we can make the possibility on the dump load system, the rated RMP of 1kw wind turbine new model is around 750, but when the rotor is out of control in 20-25m/s wind speed,as our experience, you old 1kw wind turbine's Peak output is less than 1200w, that's why your dump load system 4x300w can bear it, but our new 1kw wind turbine is more powerful, when the wind speed reach 20-25m/s, the RPM may be can reach 1200-1300, so you can imagine how high the peak output is, may be can reach 1500-1800w, so how your dump load system 4x300w can bear it, so our technician suggest to increase your dump load to 8pcsx300w to match 1pc SunG 1000w inverter for our new 1kw wind turbine,from technically speaking, it is workable, but it is not very safe enough without braking system, we will test it but need time, even the SunG inverter don't have UL certificate and unwilling to get the UL, so we recommend that you find another grid-tied inverter which can be used in US market legally.

    So I split the output from the HY-1000 into TWO 22-60v 1kw SunG GTIs, each with its own dump load resistor like this one off eBay from China (3 ohm 1500w, seller claimed that these had been developed as the perfect match dump load for the SunG 22-60 1kw GTI).

    The result this 2nd time: both 22-60v 1kw GTIs survived just fine and the China resistor dumps appear to be just fine too. But of course not the blades.

    And as I've noted, in both of these instances, I was running the "old" HY-1000 turbine with it's "older" 33" x 5" blades too. The tower for the "old" turbine/blades is only about 20', but the turbine sits about 2-3' lower, so it does not get quite as strong a wind. But if definitely still gets powerful wind. And neither time was there a GTI or blade failure with the "old" system.

    I do plan on using Tom's board to "divert" to a "braking" system, but before I spend a bunch of money on batteries, is there a way I can simply build up my dump load more--since apparently those 2 x 1500w coils don't do it?! I've got probably 12 of those Windy Nation 24v x 300w green dump coils laying around not in use...surely if I had some of those I would have enough braking power to slow the blades down without resorting to batteries? How would you guys recommend I wire them for maximum "braking"? :confused:

    Thanks everyone-

    PS I'm not sure I'm going to replace those "new and improved" blades for a 3rd time at this point, but rather use a set of the blades for the "old" HY-1000 that they still have some stock of I think...
  3. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    If you put 5 in parallel it should be good for 1500 watts and resistance will be .58 ohms. I am using Windy Nations chart. Being batteries are not being used. It will be different. To do testing use a heavy duty continuous duty relay. Or like 3- 40 amp Bosch ones. Two might do it but three would be better. Use a switch to try it out before buying a board to find what works best. Do not hook to the GTI or it will take out the Dump Load Fets and short it to dump load all the time. Been there done that.:(
    What you are trying to do is slow the turbine without the resistors getting too hot and melting the wires.
    Also at present I am not using batteries with my turbine. They did help absorb some of the gusts here. And when I get them it goes to dump alot faster without them attached.
  4. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    Mikes Wind Mill shop will sell the vertical furling setup separately.
    Contact him and give him your info.
    See what price he gives you.
    That might be the only cure.
    If you load it down too much for a long time it just might burn the windings.
    With the vertical furling you can control how fast it will be spinning at the higher winds.
    His setup is heavy duty.
    leamywind1 likes this.
  5. Hey thanks Tom for the great suggestions. I have an e-mail into Mike's to see about adding/developing some kind of furling system. I would definitely recommend those contemplating getting into microwind in very windy areas like mine to consider buying a turbine with some kind of furling mechanism. Or if I had it to do over again I'd consider the 48v version of the HY 1kw where I could then get into the larger GTIs with a cut-in voltage of 50v but a much higher top-end without having to dump. Of course you'd still want something in case of power outages, but you'd at least be that much further ahead. Those larger GTIs are obviously more expensive than the SunGs, but I've already spent way more than the difference already in destroyed equipment with my 'experimenting'... :(

  6. TomT

    TomT WindyNation Engineer

    If you talk to BlueJay on youtube.
    He can tell you about the failures he has had with the side furling design one he has. It is a good design but the winds he has will tear up just about anything he puts up. So he has experience with violent high wind speeds and turbines.
    That is why I am thinking vertical furling. I already asked Mike about high turbulence and he says it will work ok with that.
    My neighbor around the corner has an old whisper vertical furling system turbine for about 5 years till the board fried out of it. He is working on putting it back up. Anyway I have watched that one a few times and it takes changes in wind direction real well. And it is not nearly as strong as Mikes system.
    It sits in a cradle and has a spring over the top of the turbine to hold it in the cradle. If the spring were to brake if would just furl real early all the time. Mikes uses weights and would not have that problem.
    leamywind1 likes this.
  7. Well I heard back from Joy at Mike's Windmill Shop. She says that if the generator of the HY-1000 was one piece underneath the casing, then it could be removed and mounted to the frame of their "high wind LW" model. But if there is no alternator housing underneath the case this may not be possible without far more extensive modifications

    I don't believe these HY turbines have any separate housing underneath that casing, correct?

    Here's a pic of Mike's furling system...I don't see how you would mount the HY on there...:confused:


  8. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    That is awesome!! Maybe this is your answer. On the HY it looks to me the generator itself can be unbolted from the rest of the casing. Their should be about 5 screws or so (thru bolts) that hold the generator to the main molded housing. I am sure a steel plate could be fabricated to bolt the generator onto then on to this furling system. I did it with the WN 750 to make it fit a Wind Blue frame. I used a 1/4" steel hub from my old MWS blade set I got suckered into buying years ago. The 6" hub happen to be a perfect fit for the diam. of the PMA.

    I used the thru bolts of the PMA, drilled out holes on the steel hub to match the PMA bolt pattern, then mounted the steel hub to the WB frame. Works like a champ!!
    wn new mount 1 (1).jpg
    TomT likes this.
  9. Has anyone ever pulled one of these apart to confirm this? Once when my "old" HY-1000 felt like it was turning slow I loosened those 5 bolts to take a peek inside to see if something looked like a problem. It didn't seem to loosen that generator section from the rest of the housing, but the paint could have been holding things in place...I decided against further "exploration" and bolted everything back up and things worked fine.

    'Too bad HY Energy doesn't sell the naked PMA like WN does. Mating that to a vertical furling system might be a great way to go for folks in more severe/erratic wind environments...

  10. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    No I have not but i have seen pictures how it is put together. I have an old HY 400 I could test that for you.
  11. Well based on some good advice from others, this would seem to be the next dump load configuration to try for my "new" HY-1000 1kw that has been causing all the problems:

    Use 12 of the WN 2.9ohm/24v/300w resistors and wire them this way: Wire 6 pairs of 2 in series (6 sets of two resistors). Then wire those 6 sets in parallel. This makes for 5.8 / 6 = 0.967 Ohm. Load on the turbine is 50 (assuming that's the voltage the SunG 22-60v switches on dump load) x 50/ 0.967 = 2,585 Watt. HY Energy at one time recommended 2.4kw, so this would be in the ballpark.

    This is easy enough to do if I was running just one SunG 1kw GTI, but as I've said most recently I've been running two of them (parallel), both coming off the rectifier.

    So the question is: how would this dump be wired using the two GTIs as I've been doing? Can it be done or would this change the dump/performance in a negative way? Or should I give up on the "dual" GTIs altogether and go back to simply using one with the above dump load configuration? It seems using two was a good way to spread the load (abuse!) on these GTIs during high wind events, but if maybe I'm mistaken on that. Recall that the 1st time the turbine got away both the GTI and the blades were destroyed. The 2nd time, just the blades were destroyed. But the 2nd time I was also using a different dump load configuration, so the GTIs might have been protected because of that and not because there were two of them :)
  12. leamywind1

    leamywind1 WindyNation Engineer

    Hi Collin I will take a crack at your question.
    Using the two GTI's I am sure one would over volt at one point before the other. If that happens the question is for how long and how long will the other inverter over volt as well? Considering that I would think you would have to split your dump load configuration in half. 50% to one GTI and 50% to the other thinkng they would over volt pretty close together and doubling dump load watts at that point. I do not know if one GTI can handle that amount (2.4kw) of dump wattage all at once. You may have to consult with Sun G on that. You are in a new territory with this turbine as I myself have never had to use dual 1kw GTI's on 1 wind turbine and still have an over volt problem. I think you will just have to test the ideas/options slowly while watching wind speed, volts, and power production.
    I guess you could set up Tom's board to dump at like 55v or so and then use the external relay to dump. That would take the dump controller in the GTI's out of the loop which may be a safer way to go. This would also eliminate wondering when both GTI's will over volt to create the full wattage of dump load needed since one controller is now handling the system if indeed the dump coils have to be split considering the turbine needs that much wattage to keep under control.

    I tried.:)

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